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Leah Segedie on the Reality About PFAS and The way to (Considerably) Keep away from Them

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Katie: Howdy, and welcome to the wellness mama podcast. I’m Katie from and That’s wellness with an E on the tip. And I’m right here at this time with Leah Segedie, who helps ladies and mothers make safer client decisions for his or her households. And she or he is the writer at And on this episode, we discuss particularly about one thing referred to as PFAS, that are chemical compounds which might be present in every kind of family merchandise. We go deep on this at this time, however we speak about what they’re, why they’re thought-about eternally chemical compounds, how there are over 10,000 within the atmosphere, and the way they have an effect on the physique in loads of other ways. We speak about how testing may be very nuanced, and the way even pure and natural merchandise can have traces of those chemical compounds, the right way to keep away from them with out going loopy and a lot extra, very, very fact-packed episode. I do know I discovered lots. I hope you’ll too. So let’s be a part of Leah. Leah, welcome again. How are you?


Leah: Hey, thanks for having me on Katie, so good to see you once more too. I by no means get to see you.


Katie: Likewise, I really like that we do video now. For anyone listening who didn’t know, there’s video on YouTube that you just guys can really watch our faces whereas we discuss. I feel most individuals nonetheless hear on podcast apps, however it’s enjoyable to get to see your face. Really feel prefer it makes it extra private. And such as you stated, it’s been some time since we received to catch up. And we’re going to get to catch up in-depth on a really explicit difficulty. However earlier than we do, I’ve a be aware in my present notes that you’ve hip dysplasia and are mainly a human pretzel. So I might simply love to listen to slightly bit about this story first.


Leah: Okay, so there’s a genetic hip situation in my household. I’ve it, my mom has it. We don’t know additional than that as a result of my mom is adopted, however it’s hip dysplasia. Now, most individuals have heard of hip dysplasia as a result of they’ve a canine. And that canine has hip dysplasia, and it’s slightly wiener canine or one thing. And so the people who have heard about it are like, “Sure, my canine has that.” And no, I’m not a canine. However sure, that illness does occur in people. However there’s two varieties of people who it’s actually widespread in, Native American Cherokee Indian, and the Sami, who’re in Norway, Finland, and Sweden, and so they’re the reindeer folks. And I completely come from a Nordic, so it’s completely coming from the Sami. And so they have a lot of it, it’s been written up in Nationwide Geographic and stuff, so you possibly can Google it. However mainly, what it means is my hips come out of the socket, there’s about this a lot room in my socket that’s simply open. So I can simply pop it out of socket each time I need.


Now, once I’m operating, that’s dangerous, as a result of it doesn’t really feel good. However the cool factor is, it makes me very limber. When you can think about me being pregnant, like 9 months pregnant, and having the ability to put my foot again right here once I’m stretching. Like private trainers freak out after they see this proper? And it’s completely cool for me. So I’m very versatile and I could make myself a pretzel by placing each of my toes right here. But when I do it, if I get the second up, I simply go ahead, so the one place I wish to do it’s within the mattress. As a result of you realize, I don’t have the…I simply seem like a humorous toy once I try this. However it is vitally fascinating and humorous to speak about. However sure, I can put my toes proper again right here and like a human pretzel. Completely.


Katie: That’s humorous. And considered one of my…


Leah: If nobody has identified me then now they’re simply gonna know that I’m Leah Segedie, the human pretzel, which I discover wonderful.


Katie: Effectively, and considered one of my favourite journey reminiscences of all time was really visiting northern Finland and getting to fulfill the Sami tribe. They’re among the most fascinating folks I’ve ever met and completely stunning the way in which their way of life is, very completely different than mine in a really heat local weather. And it was so, so cool to see. In order that’s cool and you’ve got a tie to them as properly.


Leah: Yeah, I’ve a tie them after which…however I’ve extra of my family that I do know which might be in Sweden, however they’re extra within the metropolis now. And Bergen, Norway too, I’ve loads of family which might be in Bergen, which is de facto cool to go to as a result of the fjords are simply wonderful. You must go there as soon as in your lifetime.


Katie: I’ll put it on the listing. And I really feel like I may speak about that every one day lengthy. However we even have one other necessary subject that I feel will probably be actually related to lots of people listening, even when they don’t understand it’s going to be so related to them. And I do know that you’ve been doing an excellent, tremendous, tremendous deep dive into this subject, which is why I used to be so excited to speak to you about them at this time. So I’d say let’s begin actually, actually broad and simply outline the important thing time period that we’re going to speak lots about at this time, which is I hope I pronounced it proper, PFAS?


Leah: It’s referred to as, you possibly can consult with it as PFAS or PFAS. However PFAS might be what you’re going to listen to most individuals say P-F-A-S, so it’s simply an abbreviation and so they’re simply placing it collectively. So basically, once we’re speaking about PFAS, we’re speaking about over ten thousand chemical compounds and a chemical class. And so they all have fluorine and carbon in them of their bond. However you’ve heard of those chemical compounds as a result of it’s all of the stain-resistant, waterproof, grease-proof chemical compounds that now we have been type of swimming in for many years. Now, these chemical compounds was considered secure, you realize, inert, like okay, however within the final couple many years, we discovered that they’re persistent, which implies they don’t go away. Scientists don’t even know what the half-life of those chemical compounds are. That’s why they’re known as eternally chemical compounds. These eternally chemical compounds can final in your physique for a few years or many years. They only actually don’t know the extent of all of it and why as a result of there’s 10,000 of them and the unbiased scientists who had been coming within the backend attempting to see in the event that they’re secure, it’s been lots and lot loads of dangerous information. So in case you’ve heard about carpet not having PFAS in it anymore, or clothes corporations popping out and, you realize, engaged on PFAS options, or when you have thrown out your Teflon cookware, that’s one other instance. These are all examples of PFAS chemical compounds that now we have had in our lives for many years. And now we perceive how extremely problematic they’re.


So what I’m doing proper now’s, and thru Mamavation, is de facto attempting to construct up some consciousness round ladies, in order that they know what to search for and know the right way to keep away from them. And the toughest a part of this case is it’s unattainable to fully keep away from them. You would need to stay…you couldn’t even go to, I imply, Iceland, or the place the polar bears are, you’ll nonetheless discover them there. So that you actually can’t keep away from them. That’s as a result of they’re persistent, and so they get all over the place. However what we are able to do is we are able to make educated choices and decisions in our dwelling, and decrease the quantity that we’re uncovered to, and most of all our kids are uncovered to as a result of that’s the place that is actually, actually necessary is the following technology.


Katie: Yeah, I do know, we’re very aligned on that, and the significance of, in lots of areas, enhancing issues for our youngsters. What are among the problematic areas we see in the case of these and well being? I do know, like, we’re nonetheless doing analysis on this and, such as you stated, loads of this analysis is just within the final couple of many years. However what do we all know so far as how this impacts human well being?


Leah: So initially, it’s an androgen mimicker. So it goes into your physique and your physique really thinks it’s a hormone for males. It thinks it’s testosterone, so it thinks it’s androgen. So for boys, little boys and males, that is worse than for ladies, it’s actually dangerous for ladies, however it’s worse for males. So simply give it some thought by way of that, you don’t want further testosterone in your physique. However in case you’re a person, and also you get further testosterone in your physique, your physique says, “Okay, performed, I’ve produced sufficient.” And so for a person, it brings down your testosterone, which is one thing that’s actually dangerous in case you’re attempting to have a child, otherwise you’re attempting to breed, you realize. The opposite factor that it does, it’s actually problematic, that’s linked with all the things else is it kills your immune system, basically, it brings down your immunity so that you just can not combat off ailments.


Now, right here’s an instance of one thing of how that is occurring. Now, I don’t know the way many individuals are professional or anti-vaccine or no matter. However what I’ll say, and that is very, very, very sound science, that the extra PFAS you’ve in your system, the much less doubtless vaccinations will work inside your physique as a result of it’s bringing down your immune system, your physique simply can’t do it. In order that’s among the stuff that they’re discovering, oh, inside the final three, 4 years is that they’re taking a look at infants, and the way infants reply. And I don’t know in the event that they’ve performed this in adults, however they’ve undoubtedly performed in youngsters. And so they know that the extra you’ve in your physique, and bear in mind, this could occur in utero since you’re pregnant, the much less doubtless you possibly can reply to one thing like a vaccine, or every other sort of medicine that’s like that, that’s purported to deliver up your immune system. In order that’s one factor you actually wish to watch out about.


They’re additionally linking it to metabolism points and sort 2 diabetes. So that they’re linking it to sort 2 diabetes, particularly in ladies. So there’s loads of ladies strolling round who’re having points and it might have one thing to do with the quantity of PFAS that they’ve of their system. After which, after all, cancers, there’s loads of cancers that is linked to, like prostate most cancers and people sorts of issues, which is sensible in case you understand it really works like an artificial androgen in your physique. In order that’s type of the totality of it. The issue that we’re actually, actually coping with is, you realize, what’s occurring to us can be occurring to the earth. It’s persistent on the market, it’s getting within the soil, it’s getting within the groundwater, it’s getting in our client merchandise, it’s getting in all kinds of issues.


And so to be aware that that is on the market, however not petrified, proper, since you don’t wish to stress your self out to the quantity that you just’re making your self sick, proper? However on the earth of, these are chemical compounds that I wish to keep away from, it is a 10, and this is sort of a 3, PFAS is larger up there, it’s extra of an 8, 9, or 10 is what I might take a look at first earlier than you determine some…I don’t know, in case you’re apprehensive about one thing like sodium benzoate in your shampoo versus PFAS in one thing, don’t even fear in regards to the sodium benzoate. You understand what I imply? Like, these varieties of issues. That’s a much bigger class that you just simply wish to keep away from.


Katie: Yeah. So many necessary factors I feel you’ve simply made. And I feel what I might simply spotlight is whether or not persons are in favor of vaccines or they’re not, I feel that’s its personal separate dialog, however the necessary similarity there’s that in each instances, whether or not you’re speaking pure immunity or vaccine immunity, you want a functioning immune system to create that impact. And so I really feel like that’s really a commonality. It’s really easy for that to grow to be a polarizing difficulty. However in each instances, it’s like how can we assist the immune system in pure methods in both of these instances, and that’s one thing we are able to really all agree on. And so it is a piece of that puzzle. I consider loads of similarities like plastic-type chemical compounds, as an illustration, as properly, these are very problematic, they’ve now saturated the planet, they’re storing in our our bodies, which additionally brings up the query, how if doable in any respect can we get these out of our physique as soon as we’ve been uncovered?


Leah: You’ll be able to’t. Effectively, right here’s the arduous factor, it builds up. So it’s a kind of chemical compounds that we don’t have any proof of something having the ability to take it out of our physique. That’s the arduous half. Proper? And that’s absolutely the reality. If folks inform you the alternative, I don’t know the way supported that’s by the information, proper? So that is a kind of distinctive chemical compounds that doesn’t function like different chemical compounds, you realize, loads of these nasty, persistent chemical compounds are trapped in fats. So in case you can pull it out by means of the fats, then you possibly can pull it out of the physique, that is repelled by fats. So it simply actually operates very in a different way in your physique, and the reply is they simply don’t know.


So what the best-case situation is true now’s to keep away from it as a lot as you possibly can, select merchandise that don’t have it, be very cautious of it whenever you’re pregnant, after which when your youngsters are about 5, and so up till that, that’s whenever you’re simply you realize, on the lookout for it, avoiding it. After that, you don’t need it, however after all, you realize, hormone-disrupting chemical compounds are worse throughout hormone modifications through the physique. So the worst time is prenatal. In order that’s when all the things is altering and it all the way down to the second, the minute, you realize, issues received to only align proper. The second half is whenever you’re out and it’s 5 years, you realize, your physique has like pure defenses it builds up doesn’t actually have that till you’re over 5.


Now, the third time in your life, for girls particularly, and for males, is whenever you undergo the change, proper, you begin to grow to be a lady otherwise you grow to be a person, that’s a time when, as a mom, you wish to begin to consider this, although they don’t care, you continue to wish to give it some thought, proper? After which in the direction of the tip of your life, for girls it’s whenever you undergo the change once more and also you cease having the ability to, you realize, have a child. And for males, I don’t know when males undergo, you realize, that change, somebody ought to inform me, however I’ve three boys, it will be good to know, really. However these are an important instances so that you can begin serious about this stuff, when these varieties of folks…you realize when you’ve youngsters in the home.


Katie: Yeah, and I feel the stability, such as you stated is necessary, like keep away from it each time doable, however to not the purpose that it’s inflicting stress, which we additionally know is extraordinarily dangerous to well being. After which from there, I all the time consider, particularly once we’re speaking about chemical compounds, we don’t really know the right way to get out of the physique. It’s like assist the pure detox pathways in any manner doable. After which attempt to preserve a balanced stress degree and never be stressing about it past that. So I’m an enormous fan of issues like sauna, simply primary hydration, consuming meals like inexperienced leafy greens that bind to extra phytoestrogens and different chemical compounds within the physique.


Leah: And poop, proper? As a result of all of the dangerous stuff comes out whenever you poop, you wish to try this, proper? I’m speaking about poop and this, poop and PFAS is hilarious. However we don’t know if it comes…I imply, we simply…you realize, they haven’t performed research on that but. However I feel it’s as a result of they’re so overwhelmed proper now attempting to determine the ins and the outs of all these chemical compounds. You had been saying one thing about plasticizers. Satirically, it’s additionally a plasticizer. As a result of there’s a complete class referred to as PTFE, which is on these Teflon pans, which is type of like, which is a polymer. And mockingly, you realize, once I do testing, there are not any assessments to seek out all of those polymers. So once I’m testing for these chemical compounds, and I’m on the lookout for over 10,000 of them, the type of testing that I’m working is extra of a spot test. It’s trying to see if these chemical parts are there, it’s not telling you what particular PFAS it’s as a result of it’s unattainable. There’s solely about 90 chemical compounds you possibly can check for at a extremely good business lab. Most of those labs that you would be able to check for will solely have the ability to check for perhaps 16 to 30. But it surely’s in a college lab, they will in all probability discover about 150, however that’s it for compound testing and discovering out precisely what it’s.


The opposite choice is what you see loads of NGOs doing and us doing is we search for fluorine in any product, proper? And so then you definitely function one other check that pulls out the fluoride from the fluorine, which is the pure and leaves the artifical, and we search for one thing referred to as natural fluorine, which isn’t an exquisite factor. After I say natural by way of chemistry, it doesn’t imply the natural requirements. No, it type of means the alternative, it means man-made. So I’m on the lookout for the man-made fluorine. Whenever you discover that, there’s type of solely two choices. One is PFAS, which it’s very more likely to be, the opposite one is fluorinated prescribed drugs as a result of 25% of pharmaceutical merchandise are all fluorinated, so these are the 2 issues that I may very well be discovering. The testing that I function is a extremely excessive check. It seems at 10 elements per million. Now, although I’m saying elements per million, and that’s actually tiny, it’s really a bigger quantity as a result of after they’re testing in water, they’re wanting all the way in which down within the elements per trillion, which is sort of a drop in three Olympic dimension swimming pools, proper? And so mine could be perhaps a drop in an everyday pool or one thing like that, proper? So we’re taking a look at far bigger, and we’re not wanting in water, we’re wanting in client merchandise, like private care, something that may be burned, basically, as a result of that’s how the check is, burns issues, you realize. So if it may well’t be burned, we are able to’t use that testing methodology. Then there’s different issues we are able to take a look at.


But it surely’s additionally actually troublesome to seek out, and you realize, the devils within the particulars, in case you can’t discover it and isolate it, then can they regulate it? I don’t know. In order that’s the place I really feel like I’m type of standing within the center right here. I’m sending loads of merchandise off to the lab and I’m beginning with merchandise that we might buy that will be pure, you realize, sending these off first as a affirmation as a result of my viewers needs to know in regards to the issues that they’re already buying first, after which they wish to learn about all the things else. And you’ll be type of shocked, within the pure trade, how a lot of this chemical we’re going to seek out. There’s loads of causes behind that.


One of many causes is, like as an illustration, in case you’re shopping for natural meals, there’s nothing within the natural requirements to forestall them from utilizing FDA-approved components in manufacturing. And so they don’t have any requirements behind that, and I simply confirmed that once more final week as a result of I used to be, you realize, emailing them, I’m like, “Oh, I can’t discover something within the requirements.” And so they’re like, “It’s not there.” And so they’ll say to me one thing like, “Effectively, it’s best to, you realize, strain the FDA to take these out of…you realize, as authorised oblique components, as a substitute of coming down on us.” And I’m like, “I feel it’s best to in all probability repair this within the requirements, I simply assume it’s best to.” However that’s simply my opinion.


So it may be in something, basically. And in case you check out the FDA web site, on what’s authorised for a meals contact sort of substance, there’s loads of polymers which might be authorised, polymeric PFAS. So which means these are PFAS chemical compounds which might be made up of all these several types of monomers. So it’s prefer it’s a PFAS made from PFAS, and in addition, however it turns into like a plastic, proper? So we’re going to see this, in all probability, I’m considering, since there’s so lots of them which might be authorised by the FDA, that’s in all probability what we might in all probability be seeing in meals, you realize, sort of producing. I’ve by no means been capable of isolate and discover it as a result of these assessments are simply not accessible. However I preserve seeing it in every kind of merchandise. And I’m actually completely happy to do that testing as a result of not solely do I wish to know, however as soon as I began testing, all people else needed to know as properly. So it’s an important service that we’re capable of present for folks at Mamavation. I’m actually completely happy to have the ability to do that.


Katie: I’m going to go line by line with some widespread merchandise and like, undergo what you discovered on the testing. However earlier than we get into the extra detailed half, I might love to listen to what are among the widespread sources within the dwelling atmosphere that some folks listening…particularly lots of people listening are already extra naturally minded, like your viewers as properly. What could be among the widespread sources and the way can we begin to keep away from it within the dwelling?


Leah: So the primary place goes to be you’re going to eat it and drink it, that’s the place they nonetheless assume you’re getting the overwhelming majority of that is. Quite a lot of this could be cookware, so when you have Teflon-based cookware or nonstick cookware in any respect, I might keep away from that. Clearly, I do know you’ve received nice content material about that and I’ve received content material about that, that had been type of shoving you guys off of nano-based cookware and nonstick cookware. In order that’s one place. You additionally wish to search for it in your small kitchen home equipment, as a result of you’ll find it in issues like air fryers, you’ll discover it in issues like toasters, and it’s not on the meals contact floor, it’s exterior. And the loopy factor about that’s if it’s on the partitions on the skin, if it will get too sizzling, it may well disperse into that air so it’s nonetheless type of a problem. So we’re proper now working by means of these merchandise for air fryers and every kind of various issues. I might simply say name up the corporate, look and double-check to be sure that they’re not including something to those merchandise on the surfaces. Undoubtedly not meals contact, meals contact could be the primary half, however that’s what I search for.


Meals packaging is one other difficulty, issues that we don’t consider like parchment paper. I discovered it in parchment paper. So there are some parchment papers which might be made from silicone and there’s some parchment papers which might be made from PFAS. And so they, a few of them typically they’ll inform you, however you bought to be trying to see which of them, and simply to type of assist out your folks proper now as a result of I do know that you just’re going to ask me which of them are secure. If You Care, we examined that particular model, it’s the brown wrapper that appears type of recycled, that one we didn’t discover something in. One other Finnish firm, which known as Gifbera, after which one other one referred to as Katbite, which I feel is Korean, these are all accessible on Amazon. So If You Care, Gifbera, Katbite, these we examined, and we didn’t discover something, however we did discover it in Reynolds. And we did discover it in Kirkland, so Costco. So these are meals packaging.


However right here’s like, loads of instances whenever you’re going to get this in your meals packaging, it’s going to be extra of a problem of I went out to eat, or I’m utilizing one thing that’s processed. So the reply is the extra you possibly can prepare dinner from scratch at dwelling, the extra you’re going to have the ability to eliminate these contaminants with out even figuring out about it as a result of loads of instances it has to do with the processing of the meals by some means, and the way these chemical compounds, be in polymers or no matter, are moving into all the things. So the extra you possibly can prepare dinner by yourself…once more, I feel that’s in all probability one thing that you just love to listen to, the extra you possibly can prepare dinner utilizing substances that you realize about, the higher off you’re.


One other actually large space is family mud. This isn’t one thing that you’d take into consideration. However you realize, your mud is then analyzed. Your family mud has been analyzed at a lab, not yours particularly, however different folks’s. And it comprises loads of fireplace retardants, phthalates, and PFAS. And that’s coming off of your electrical tools in your home. So your tv in all probability has some PFAS within the wiring, perhaps has it someplace. And when that plastic will get sizzling, loads of these plastics have fireplace retardants and different varieties of issues inside them. Now, over time, and I imply, over years, because it will get sizzling, they type of emit into the air, and these particles are extremely magnetized in the direction of mud. So that they follow the mud and so they fall, proper?


So how do you get this out of your home? I might say simply mud, I hate that reply however that’s actually the reply. The extra you mud, you realize, the cleaner you retain your home, the much less doubtless your youngsters are going to be uncovered to this. Now, I can’t cease them from like, you realize, being on carpet in case you’ve outdated carpeting with PFAS on it, there’s nothing I can do for that different than simply vacuum a ton, you realize, to get that stuff out of it, it’s going to break down over time and be launched. So vacuum as a lot as you possibly can, these varieties of issues. Get an air air purifier, among the greatest air purifiers are on the market. Although I do know those that we suggest are in all probability additionally going to be pulling in PFAS as a result of in the event that they’re pulling within the mud, that’s the place it’s, proper? So that you wish to eliminate the mud.


Make-up and private care, it is a actually troublesome difficulty. Earlier this 12 months, they did an investigation not me, however the precise scientists, proper? And they also checked out over 300 typical, principally typical make-up merchandise and so they discovered it overwhelmingly in make-up, give it some thought like this, stays longer, waterproof, you realize what I’m saying? You need your make-up to remain in your face and never go wherever and the extra we’ve demanded that the extra they put in PFAS. So that you wish to type of search for issues that don’t have any claims about long-lasting, don’t have any claims about being waterproof.


I might say we discovered about six or seven completely different manufacturers of make-up within the pure world that I didn’t discover, you realize, any natural fluorine on the ranges we’re on the lookout for. However most of even the pure magnificence merchandise, you realize, make-up manufacturers, it’s like…like, I used to be taking a look at loads of issues, mascara and lip gloss so to talk as a result of I knew that these are like what everybody’s utilizing on daily basis, proper, lip gloss, after which if it’s basis, it’s like next-level dedication, proper? So we simply went within the first go dedication, and in some manufacturers, we discovered it not of their mascara however discovered of their lip gloss or vice versa. So it was actually troublesome to type of have the ability to say this model or that model as a result of we needed to do loads of testing to determine that out. So make-up I might say, and different than simply, you realize, following me and what I’m testing there’s no different reply to make-up as a result of nobody’s placing that info on the market. Even the scientists who had been taking a look at it, they’re not likely like granting you the uncooked information to have the ability to work out which one they examined however that’s why we did it.


One other factor is like water, look into your water. It is a actually large deal as a result of in case you stay by a navy base otherwise you stay by an airport that is actually necessary, navy bases and airports have been utilizing firefighting foam to place out grease fires which have PFAS in them and it has seeped into the groundwater beneath and has contaminated loads of groundwater by these bases. So in case you stay by an airport otherwise you stay by a navy base, I might simply exit and get a water air purifier regardless, don’t even wait. As a result of the reply is it’s in all probability going to be there and it is probably not a kind of PFAS that we are able to acknowledge simply but. You understand, as a result of that’s the opposite drawback with water is, we aren’t as much as testing in any respect. So I might simply assume, you realize, that that’s how I’m working proper now’s I’m simply assuming, although our water system doesn’t have something in it, it’s like, yeah, you solely examined 16 of them, you realize, there’s like 10,000 on the market, you realize, that’s how I really feel like there’s an enormous gaping gap. So water, work on water.


Clothes is one other large one, however the reply to clothes is we don’t know the reply behind dermal contact. So I’ve loads of advisors who work on this and a few of them are working behind the scenes to creating strategies for testing. A few of them, you realize, they’re working at several types of phases in several types of methods with this chemical. However the one factor that all of them agreed on was we don’t know sufficient about dermal contact. We don’t know if one thing rubs up in opposition to your pores and skin, and it’s a PFAS chemical, will it get in? How will it get in? How a lot we’ll get in? We don’t know.


And since we don’t know, we are able to’t make any statements about that. So the reply is we don’t know. However the place are you going to seek out it? Something that’s stain proof, keep away from issues which might be stain proof, completely 100% as a result of that’s the place it’s going to be. It’s in loads of jackets waterproof. We did an investigation on jackets, so in case you go to Mamavation…I want I may inform you each single one, however it’s very complicated on the market proper now to seek out out what’s PFAS-free, after which what’s just a bit part of PFAS-free. A few of these corporations which might be producing clothes, aren’t wanting on the large chemical class. They’re solely taking a look at this over right here, and so they say, “We’re freed from PFC.,” however they’re forgetting all this different stuff over right here, you realize.


And there’s some certifications like Bluesign, as an illustration. Bluesign licensed is a kind of certifications that may enable sure varieties of PFAS chemical compounds within the certification and but they type of make a declare that they’re PFAS-free. So it’s complicated for the patron and the explanation it’s complicated for the patron is the scientists have simply type of gotten on the identical web page about the place this chemical is and what we’re going to think about as a part of the chemical. So I don’t wish to say it’s all the companies’ faults, I’m saying that they’re doing what’s within the legislation, you realize, after they’re making these statements, however the statements are altering as a result of the science is altering. And because the science is altering typically the businesses are two, three years behind, you realize, the mantra, the way it’s described. And so I’m operating into loads of that with jackets, like play couches, play modular couches, you realize, something like that, which may have like a stain-proofing about it. So simply be looking for that.


Tents and outside tools. Oh, gosh, I can’t…my cousins in Norway are going to chuckle at me, however there’s one model that we love a lot. And it’s received a J in it, I’ll put it in your notes, your present notes. It’s like a Swedish identify and I can’t pronounce it as a result of I don’t communicate Swedish. And it’s received a J in it and I’m gonna simply completely butcher it. However there’s loads of European manufacturers that as a substitute of utilizing PFAS, like on their tents, as an illustration, they use beeswax and paraffin proprietarily put collectively and it does a really comparable or just about the identical factor. These merchandise are extra dear, you realize, you’re not going to discover a low cost tent that’s PFAS-free with, you realize, extra pure…and I do know paraffin isn’t pure, however like, you realize, it’s higher than PFAS. These varieties of mixtures which might be much less problematic to the atmosphere in a cheap manner but, hopefully the long run will change that.


Then additionally, you realize, it’s in automotive wax and surfboard wax, these varieties of issues, and carpet and flooring. We did a bamboo investigation, we checked out a bunch of various bamboo floorings and we solely discovered one which didn’t have detections out of like eight or 9. So I’ve been serious about this by way of what’s round us. You understand, in case you’re going to be doing flooring, as an illustration, you realize, we went after bamboo and we seemed particularly at bamboo as a result of why? I’m like, it’s cheaper, it doesn’t dent, you possibly can stroll round together with your heels and so I used to be attempting to love, you realize, remedy all the issues after which we did discover one model. But it surely’s troublesome. It’s actually troublesome to keep away from it, you realize, grandstand overarching, eat out much less, mud extra, and prepare dinner from scratch as a lot as you possibly can. These are the three issues that I might say would in all probability do probably the most bang on your buck and simply look out for locations who…like in case you go to, we’ve performed an investigation on like loads of issues, not all the things but, however on loads of issues. And that’s the…I’m attempting to reply that query, the place is it, how do I keep away from it? And I’m type of going class by class to determine it out as a result of each class is de facto difficult.


Katie: Yeah, that jogs my memory, within the labeling, like, we began…such as you stated, we’re seeing some which might be labeled as “freed from” sure ones of those, however it jogs my memory of when BPA turned well-known, after which it was like BPA-free. However these all had BPS or BPAF or different ones, that are as problematic, the place we’re now discovering, in some instances, worse. And so simply because there are some that label now doesn’t essentially imply, such as you stated, that they’re secure.


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And I do know out of your web site, you’ve performed investigations into all of those several types of issues. And also you gave us a family overview simply now. However I might like to undergo some others which might be particularly in all probability relevant to mothers. So I cringe to ask, however the first being, what about, like, athletic put on like yoga pants?


Leah: So yoga pants wasn’t as dangerous, really. In order that was one of many higher ones. We examined about, I feel, 32 or 33, completely different yoga pants, athletic put on as a result of that was a query I had. I’m like yoga pants, you realize what I imply? I put on them actually on daily basis, it’s type of like my outfit, it must be like a uniform. And I do know each day, I’m sporting yoga pants, some shirt that’s actually comfy, and my hair is in a extremely messy bun, I received loads of hair, so this all goes up in a bun. So we checked out about 32 of them, we discovered 25% of these yoga pants had detectable fluorine within the crotch. Now, once I first began testing them, I used to be testing the knees, you’re not going to seek out it within the knees. How do I do know? I examined to seek out it. After which I believed to myself, the place would I put it? And so I had the lab repeat a few them with the crotch, bam, that’s the place it was. So about 25%. Now, not one of the natural manufacturers, in case you look in…not one of the natural manufacturers that we had examined, yeah, all of them had non-detect at 10 elements per million, so that’s secure.


We did a like a not our favourite, higher, and greatest class of these 32. Those that we discovered detectable there within the high of the what we might not suggest, then there have been ones within the center, which had been artificial supplies so we didn’t discover something in them. So be happy to purchase them. After which for these of you who need the natural model that’s in one of the best on the very backside. Yeah, so we tried to type of divide it in three for everybody to have the ability to determine that out as properly. So this was not as dangerous, however you’ll discover it within the crotch, which might be…it could be comparable in different pants too if you concentrate on it, prefer it’s going to be within the crotch. Now, I don’t know is the reply to that. I’ll sooner or later, perhaps begin testing underwear and swimsuits and stuff like that, however in case you…to learn about that, I don’t learn about these but as a result of I’ve been requested that query. So I’m simply going to inform you I don’t learn about some fits and underwear but. However interval underwear, I do know.


Katie: Effectively, that’s encouraging that there are these good choices accessible as a result of I used to be not going to be prepared to surrender my yoga pants. However that does result in different athletic put on. So let’s speak about sports activities bras after which, because you talked about it, additionally interval underwear.


Leah: Yeah, so sports activities bras are fairly problematic. We discovered…so you realize your sports activities bra, there’s just like the outer a part of it after which there’s the interior half. So the interior half is that, like, type of pores and skin colour mesh that’s subsequent to your bra, which might be subsequent to your breast. We discovered detections in 65% of sports activities bras in that mesh space. And once I instructed my advisors about this, loads of them they had been pediatricians that had been, you realize, serving to me evaluate this one particular one, they had been involved and extra of our advisors had been involved as a result of that is the mesh that’s proper up in opposition to your breasts. Now, right here’s the situation I’m considering of as a result of this was my life and nonetheless might be my life. You understand, you’re a brand new mother, proper, and your child goes down for a nap, and so what do you do? You run off and also you do a exercise or one thing like that as greatest as you possibly can and you realize you’ve received like 40 minutes to an hour, proper? So that you’re understanding, understanding, after which sweating up a storm and you bought your sports activities bra on after which, you hear the noise, proper, and also you’re like, “Shoot,” didn’t get the time, so that you didn’t have time for a bathe. So then you definitely run upstairs, you go get the infant, and growth, breastfeed. That’s the situation I’m apprehensive about.


So if you’re a breastfeeding mom, please watch out and take a look at my investigation for the not our favourite, higher, and greatest. We discovered them in 65% of those merchandise, it was not all the things. It was arduous due to the high-impact bras, there weren’t as many good high-impact bras, however considered one of them that I did discover that I feel persons are going to be enthusiastic about is Goal. Goal has really been doing loads of work on PFAS and textiles and you would inform as a result of once I examined in opposition to that, they got here out clear. So in case you’re an enormous busted girl, which I’m, my women are fairly giant…When you’re an enormous busted girl you don’t need, like, black eyes when you’re understanding, proper, Goal’s a kind of manufacturers. It’s not natural, clearly, it’s filled with artificial polyester and yada, yada, yada, however we didn’t discover detectable PFAS within the sports activities bras there. So that they’re referred to as All In Movement or one thing like that, in order that was good. And typically I simply preserve testing till I discover one thing that I can put on, you realize, and that was a kind of points the place I simply saved testing. That was sports activities bras. In order that’s one you wish to look on When you go there, we’ve received the entire assessments listed proper there on all of the manufacturers that we discovered.


Katie: What about interval underwear? That is once I personally don’t have any expertise with as a result of I’m an enormous fan of the menstrual cup as a substitute for the sustainability, which I do know interval underwear are as properly, however what did you discover when it got here to those?


Leah: It was fairly dangerous really once we seemed into interval underwear, we had…I’m attempting to recollect what number of we examined, it was over 20. I feel we solely discovered six manufacturers with out detectable ranges. Yeah, solely six, and the toughest half the place there are some manufacturers that truly market themselves as PFAS-free. I’m not gonna say which model it’s however you might have considered trying to have the ability to determine that out, you’ll go on their web site, and they’re going to present you scientific testing on how they will show that they’re PFAS-free. However you must have my eyes to know what you’re taking a look at. You take a look at that scientific research, proper, that they despatched off to the lab, the detection degree is lots larger than mine. So I check at 10 elements per million. They had been testing at 50, so you realize what I imply, like, I can’t make any statements about that. However I might say there’s some humorous enterprise occurring in that.


And the issue is…I, you realize, interviewed loads of the CEOs that had the safer interval underwear. And basically what’s occurring is what they stated to me is you’ve lots of people on this trade that don’t actually have loads of expertise with textiles. Like, they don’t know lots about what they’re doing. They’re nice entrepreneurs, they’re nice, at loads of different issues, however they don’t actually know lots in regards to the processing of textiles. And in case you don’t know, you don’t know what to say, you don’t know what to ask, after which she was additionally telling me that, she’s like, you may get Oeko-Tex cloth, so to talk, and ship it to the producer, after which the producer will probably be like, “Oh, would you like waterproofing on that?” And so they know that in case you put that on it destroys all the things, like all of the accreditations and all that stuff, however they provide it anyhow. And so you realize, in case you’re somebody who doesn’t perceive the textile trade, you might fall into that class.


So what I discovered in interval underwear wasn’t ranges that seemed like…there was a couple of manufacturers that had ranges that had been actually excessive, proper, I might be like, “Whoa.” However then there have been different manufacturers that had ranges that had been low. And so whenever you take a look at that, it seems like extra of a contamination difficulty than it seems like an deliberately added difficulty. However I don’t know what, you realize, the distinction is when it’s proper up by your vagina. I simply don’t know, and no one is aware of. In order that’s why we had been capable of do the classes we had been and I imagine it was…it could be seven now as a result of we preserve testing. And we preserve including to that report, you realize, each time we do discover one thing, and people who ship me interval underwear need me to check it, simply if you wish to try this I can check stuff, simply preserve it in its unique packaging. I simply don’t need you contaminating it. However yeah, we’ve had group members purchase extra interval underwear that they need, they ship it off to me after which we simply go check it within the lab simply to verify we all know out of all of the manufacturers that we are able to see. That’s not one.


Katie: Gotcha. I’ll be sure that we hyperlink to those as properly as a result of I do know you’ve written about all of those and other people can go search for the precise particulars. So for you guys listening, could have all these hyperlinks. One other related one for mothers, what about ketchup? As a result of I do know for lots of youngsters, it is a favourite so as to add to loads of stuff. So what about ketchup?


Leah: Ketchup was simply heartbreaking. Ketchup, the overwhelming majority of the ketchups that I examined, all had complete fluorine in it. Now, I needed to clarify to all people that I did complete fluorine assessments on the overwhelming majority of those ketchup manufacturers. I didn’t do natural fluorine, however let me inform you type of what I’ve been doing. I’ve despatched about 350 issues off to the lab during the last 2 years, loads of testing. So that provides you an thought of how a lot testing I’ve performed. And I might say 80% of that testing, we’ve performed natural fluorine on. And once I first began, I did complete fluorine. So I wasn’t as savvy as I’m now to know in regards to the distinction between the pure fluorine and the natural fluorine, which is artificial, and also you wanted to separate that. And so, you realize, my scientific advisors got here in and helped me with that after which we began, so ketchup is an older one.


However we discovered a ton of complete fluorine in ketchup, besides for 2 manufacturers. We didn’t discover it in Heinz, and that shocked me. So I used to be like, right here’s the common Heinz within the glass bottle, nothing, within the plastic bottle, nothing, within the little ketchup packets, nothing. We didn’t discover it, you realize, in any Heinz product. After which we didn’t discover it in 365 Entire Meals Natural Ketchup. So it made me assume that that could be white-labeled, perhaps white-labeled Heinz ketchup, have you learnt what I’m saying? However then each different ketchup that we examined, we discovered detectable ranges, and loads of them had been actually near 10. So it was like they had been proper there, proper?


So right here’s the reply to that, of the entire issues that I’ve despatched off to the lab, they’ve been ready…and so they do complete fluorine on all the things, however then we run one other check and it’s a check for fluoride, proper? And what they do is that they search for fluoride after which they’re capable of do a calculation to deduct the full fluorine quantity from the fluoride quantity, and that’s natural fluorine, so that they try this calculation for you. I’ve by no means seen, not doable, however I’ve simply by no means seen fluoride, greater than two, perhaps three elements per million. You understand, so loads of manufacturers will wish to say, in the event that they wish to say it’s complete fluorine, I’ve not discovered that, you realize, fluoride to be an enormous factor and something, you realize, I feel they wish to assume that it’s however it’s within the stuff that I’ve examined, we’ve not. I did ship two of these manufacturers as a result of two manufacturers folks had been actually, actually…they actually needed to learn about.


And that was Primal and Annie’s. And I despatched Annie’s and Primal out for natural fluorine testing after we put this up, and so they had been just about the identical quantity. So I feel that we’re discovering loads of indications. That’s the one the place I’ve to say learn it, however perceive the testing isn’t full. And I do plan on updating that individual investigation, including extra manufacturers, and doing the entire shebang, it’s simply in all probability not going to be till subsequent 12 months someday, proper? And I wish to give these manufacturers a while to work on it. So I do know loads of them do learn about my testing and whether or not…I don’t know in the event that they’re making any strikes, as a result of they haven’t come to me and stated they’re making any strikes. In order that’s unlucky, however I’ll say in different manufacturers…or different industries, there’s manufacturers making some fairly hefty strikes right here.


Katie: So, to be continued, and I’ll put hyperlinks to the present ones so folks can have these as a place to begin. And I do know that there’s extra to come back in different classes as properly. So folks can keep updated with you to maintain a watch out for that. It additionally makes me curious if it’s doable to get folks examined for these compounds. And I additionally marvel like, is there even a…in case you’re going to weigh the chance and advantages, is it even price doing? We don’t know the right way to get them out of the physique and we all know it’s good to keep away from them. Like, is it price testing if it’s even doable? Or is it higher simply to know they’re dangerous and keep away from them?


Leah: So I want I might have performed that once I didn’t end that query for you. I’ve a check downstairs, there’s a model new check that got here out. I feel it’s referred to as Empower FX. So I’m going to must double test on that. However there’s a model new check the place you possibly can prick your finger and ship it to a lab. Now, it is a large big deal as a result of it’s not costly and it’s accessible to all people. So let me provide you with some background. So I needed to do a physique burden, you realize, scientific research. And I had loads of scientists concerned and we type of talked about it. And what we realized was, it was near unattainable to do that as a result of your physique doesn’t launch it. So, you realize, it’s not like with polyphenols and, you realize, you wait every week later and also you simply don’t eat them or put them into your physique, they’ll be much less. That’s not the case of PFAS. So it’s actually arduous to check in your physique, actually, actually troublesome to do these comparisons, so we ended up not doing it.


At that time, we had been wanting right into a lab that was about $1,000 a check. Oh, yeah, loopy. So I’ll inform you my pleasure when I discovered a model who’s doing this for $250. And also you’re doing it at dwelling. What we had been going to look into was sending folks to a draw lab after which sending it off to a lab in Canada. And prefer it was all of this, you realize, strategic, loopy stuff that we needed to do. However now there’s a firm, and I wish to say Empower FX, and we’ll hyperlink that down beneath. However they partnered with Eurofins and Eurofins is a humongous $6 billion lab world wide. So it’s a extremely…that’s an important partnership. And so Eurofins is the companion on this and so they’re producing these little check kits. So you possibly can check your self, it’s slightly drip of blood, ship it off, and I imagine they’re testing for between 16 to 30 completely different PFAS, however the most typical ones that you just’re going to seek out in water.


Katie: Good to know, I’ll put hyperlinks to that as properly if it’s in your web site, or I’ll get that information from you for people who find themselves…


Leah: It’s not but.


Katie: Okay.


Leah: You’ve received it first.


Katie: How thrilling. And as I anticipated, our time, after all, flew by as a result of we all the time have such enjoyable conversations.


Leah: How has it been 45 minutes? Oh my gosh.


Katie: So we’ll simply must do extra rounds of this as increasingly more investigations come out. However simply on the finish, I like to ask if there’s any parting recommendation you wish to give to our listeners at this time, may very well be associated to this or one thing completely unrelated to all of the mothers listening?


Leah: Oh, you realize, by way of these items, I might say don’t sweat the small stuff, proper? I imply, I’ve been doing toxic-free for seven years now, perhaps eight. And that’s one of many issues that I’ve discovered, you realize, I wish to know what absolutely the worst issues are and I’ll keep away from these. And the entire different issues, I’ll based mostly on my emotional wants at that second, proper? And so, by way of like, whenever you’re serious about issues, don’t freak out about one thing you employ as soon as a month, proper? What you wish to take a look at are the massive dailies, proper, day by day exposures. So don’t sweat the small stuff by way of, you realize, don’t freak out over some factor that you just’re going to be consuming, you realize, or ingesting as soon as a month. So go off to your buddy’s home, eat the pizza, and drink, and the cake and, you realize, take pleasure in your self. As a result of the stress that you would be able to placed on folks based mostly on being afraid of all these items, I feel, might be worse on you total than I feel the precise chemical compounds themselves and that’s what I’ve discovered over time.


And so shield your area, shield your soul, so to talk, from being too afraid. I feel that there’s a distinction between having a wholesome concern of one thing that’s harmful, you realize what I’m saying, and avoiding that since you’re good. And likewise moving into the world of it would being like a disordered considering course of, you realize, the disordered considering strategy of all the things is poisonous isn’t place so that you can be. I need you to take pleasure in your life. And you realize, observe folks like Katie and I for, you realize, directions on what to do after which simply let it go. You understand, that’s my recommendation is, you realize, management what you bought within the dwelling, exit and discover the world and revel in your self, and check out to not let your craziness sink into different locations is my greatest recommendation.


After which simply, you realize, attempt to keep abreast of this, however you realize, that is a kind of points the place persons are not likely contacting their elected officers about this. And I do know there’s lots of people particularly in like Republican districts and stuff like that, they’re not listening to sufficient from you, as a result of they might be doing extra in the event that they heard from you. And I actually really feel like for lots of ladies who’re residing in Republic, congressional districts and stuff like that, name them, allow them to know you’re involved about this. Allow them to know that you just care, and also you care about them, have you learnt what I’m saying? When you’re voting for them, and that is your difficulty, be sure that they know that that is necessary to them. As a result of I used to work for elected officers a few years in the past and I’ll say that when the ladies begin calling up, and after they begin pushing and honking on the doorways, they received their little strollers and stuff, you realize you’re in hassle. It’s the senior residents and the mothers and also you don’t wish to piss off both of these teams. However you realize, that is simply one thing that your elected officers want to listen to extra from you on as a result of there’s loads of states and once I say lots, I imply loads of states proper now which might be contemplating like 200 items of laws on PFAS. They should hear from you.


Katie: Yeah, I’ve stated that so many instances on this podcast that mothers are such a power of nature and that widespread coverage occurs when the typical mother modifications her thoughts and will get concerned and that’s on so many alternative ranges. And I’ve seen it on an area degree. Truly, the place I used to stay, it was fascinating, on this state, homebirth was technically not authorized for some time, and a bunch of mothers I do know lobbied and received it modified. However I feel it doesn’t must be…I feel we frequently don’t do it as a result of we expect it must be this big quantity, this big groundswell, it really doesn’t as a result of I additionally used to web page for representatives and it doesn’t take that many calls and letters earlier than they concentrate. So I might say don’t underestimate…particularly on stuff like this that pertains to our youngsters, don’t underestimate your energy to vary that. And likewise to echo your different recommendation, be careful for what you possibly can but additionally understand the physique is good and adaptable and designed to heal and keep away from the worst of the worst, however don’t let it rule your life or grow to be worrying. And that applies to meals, that applies to what we work together with in our day by day lives, and provides your self some grace on the finish of the day too.


Leah: Love you, lady. You’re so nice at summarizing my level.


Katie: Proper again at you, and thanks for the time at this time. It’s all the time, after all, so enjoyable to get to speak with you. Like I stated, we’ll do it once more as increasingly more information turns into accessible. However thanks for being right here.


Leah: After all. It’s my pleasure. Thanks for having me, Katie.


Katie: And thanks, as all the time, to all of you for listening and sharing your most beneficial sources, your time, your power and your consideration with us at this time. We’re each so grateful that you just did and I hope that you’ll be a part of me once more on the following episode of “The Wellness Mama Podcast.”


When you’re having fun with these interviews, would you please take two minutes to depart a ranking or evaluate on iTunes for me? Doing this helps extra folks to seek out the podcast, which implies much more mothers and households may gain advantage from the data. I actually admire your time, and thanks as all the time for listening.

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